What's Working, What's Not

In this exercise, we considered five facets of the Plone experience, and worked in small groups to identify what is working well, what is not working well, and what is working elsewhere that should inspire us. Agreement is indicated by +3, +5, etc.


Installation + out of the box experience


Working Well


    Buildout and buildout based install +16

    Unified quick prototyping

    Just Works +2

    5 mins up and running a cms +10

    Binary Installers +1

    Local install/develop +3

    Cross platform/Universal Installer +2

    Easy to start Adding content +1 x2

    Windows Controller +7

    Range of Functionality +2

    Easy inviting to play with +1


Working elsewhere


    SugarCRM Install TTW + with ratings + 3

    PyPI +_1

    PHP install experience

    Oracle Apex

    Typo3 has TTW install of add-ons +2

    Drupal, Wordpress, setup wizards +1

    VMWare Appliance +1x2

    Sharepoint: Site themes +1

    Alfresco: Mass upload of content +5

    Some non really core products shippped/organized with the main product (Drupal)

    Pretty icons

    Adobe Flex (installing as a Flex app) (?)


Not Working Well


    Eggs hard at first, ZCML slugs, localevn, develop

    Old style vs new style products +5

    differences between installers +2

    OS package mgmt out of date +3

    Dependency mgmt (buildout, generic setup)

    Understanding buildout +3

    Need profiles for Edu +6

    ZCML +2

    Need content skeletons +1

    No Live CD Plone (or VM image) +1

    Insecure default install

    Inconsistent file locations across platforms +7

    Please kill the access rule on windows +12

    Lack of start/sopt tool to control zope instance on OSX +4

    No backup OOTB +4

    ZEO should be setup by default  + 2

    Buildout directory structure confusing

    Buildout clobbers instead of failing

    Zope welcome page and Plone welcome page

    Missing expected add ons (blogs,forums) +4

    Richer defaults ootb demo content +1


    Non-standard unixy stuff

    No custom form generation +7

    More clarity about dev vs. demo, easier transition from dev to deployment +4

    Easier demo story +1

    Start UP/Profile wizard +8

    No X Platform controller

    steep early learning curve for buildout +1

    Looks like it is 2001 (graphic design) +6

    No ajaxy widgets +5

    Set of default skins +9

    No Virtual images


Deployment, Performance and Hosting


Working Well


    Buildout  +9

    Good documententation

    Squid + varnish work

    We aren't in denial about performance +1

    Entransit +1


    Windows installer

    Unified install

    Buildout is text and not GUI

    ZEO Cluster OOB +2

    Bones +2

    Very secure deployments possible

    Varnish or CacheFu

    Read Only/Demo Mode

    CacheFu helps +2

    Zeo +6


    Easy to set up basic deploy +2

    Easy to have multiple instances

    easy backup

    good performance-tuning docs

    portable run anywhere (almost) +1


Not Working Well


    Need to profile code for performance +12

    Lack of up-to-date profiling tools (call profiler-esque) +1

    Best practice guide for profiling

    Buildout is textual not GUI

    Mass deployment story

    No cheap hosting - need better ecosystem +8

    Squid + Varnish are hard to configure +4

    Caching custom content types is hard

    Can't cache logged in pages (?)

    Upgrade/OOB products

    Implement continuous benchmarking process +4

    Buildout recipe index +7

    Identifying hosting (quality, availability)

    Staging solution +8

    Alternate delivery mechs (static, entransit) +1

    Promotion, visibility of (config option, predefined buildout) +3

    Content export and import +15

    Migration often a nightmare, best practices for migration unclear (in place vs export import) +8

    Security practices need improvement, best practices +2

    Bad (outdated) documentation conflicting +2

    Best practices GS coverage and import/export + 10

    Nightly benchmarks (lack of) +4

    Lack of static deployment +22

    Dump HTML to commodity server +4

    Diagrams of common or typical deployment strategies +6

    Python dependencies (ISP has different version)

    Most sysadmins or ISPs won't host (No IIS or Apache)  +6

    Requires Cache

    Backup/Restore impossible (?)

    Memory usage +3

    High writes problem

    ZEO is Single Point of Failure +1

    CacheFu no longer maintained +1

    High Latency

    Sys admin docs +1

    Migration SUCKS  +9

    ZPT is slow +4

    Delivery is slow +4

    Scaling number of documents +1

    Lack of clear purpose |  Misuse of Plone (not social networking tool)

    Lack of configuration management story +7

    RAM cache / Multiple ZEO client get out of sync +1


Working Elsewhere


    Demo site would be could

    Pre configured VMWare or Live CD



    Hosting providers have 1 click install of Drupla, Joomla, Wordpress etc

    Memcached +4

    built-in reporting on resource usage +1

    URL's can map to static files(eg. /news.html)

    WSGI +3

    WAR files

    Repoze +15


Docs and Community Support


Working Well


    Planet +4

    ZopeSekl +3

    IRC + 5

    Docs getting better

    More and better books

    Plone user manual

    PHC works +1

    Sprints and conferences +3

    Martin's book and Philips +4

    General training and boot camps +6

    Zope Book

    Selected tutorials and rich doc archgen

    Joels Humane CMS Presentation +4


    Clouseau +2

    Docfinder Tab


    ZMI Introspection +1


 Not Working Well


    Organization of docs and versioning =6

    AT Docs outdated

    API.plone.org +1

    Prune old docs +10

    No wiki as docs/inconsistent format

    Improve user group support +2

    No translations on plone.org

    Not enough screencasts +5

    Topic co-ordinators missing +3

    Plone 3 Themeing tutorial +4

    More examples +1

    No way to request missing documentation, need feedback loop

    Docs cannot replace mentoring +3

    User groups

    PSC (lacks ratings etc.) +11

    The Zope Book +1

    Related items (portlet, tags as, needed for plone.org/doc)

    Entry guide by audience (designer, dev, emulator) +2

    By version, audience

    Big picture diagram, doc of the stack +10

    Easing transition from one version to another



    IA Findability +8

        Not defined paths

        organized by role and task

    Transition docs between versions +2

    Can't find conf videos as docs +2

    Promote local user groups

    Inline documentation +3

    Many docs assume Python even if the topic area (eg skinning) doesn't +2

    Enhance plone.net +1

    No global search across plone.org, .net, zope etc +1

    Testable documentation

    Search for docs

    MacYet on irc

    No certification +1

    Lack of backwards compatability +1

    Docs come after a release +4

    Api docs +1


Working Well


    IRC +2

    Sprints +10

    mailing lists


    Blog community

    Planet plone +1


    Videos from conferences


    Printed books +4

    Testable docs +2

    Conferences +6

    Trainings +4


    Plone.net +2

    More Sean Kelley


Working elsewhere


    Apache.orgs versioned docs +2

    Python.orgs +2

    PHP Gives docs and examples


    Django docs (especially coments) +2

    Javadoc +1

    Docfindertab no zope 3

    The book (PHP)

    Trails concept Java +1

    Django docs

    Start here +5

    In Drupal: clear starting points

    PHP.net promotes usergroups

    Comments on API docs (php.net)

    SQL Alchemy

    Wiki docs +1

    Generla use case tutorials +2

    Screencasts evaluating products +4

    Ubuntu mentoring

    Drupal promoting subcommites +1


    Self-documenting applications +2


Community and core development processes


Working elsewhere


    Working Wellums no need to register

    Drupal has barcamps with big speakers +2

    Use of social netowrking

    Good screencasts, quality ones +4

    RoR site

    PHP's annotated docs




    Time-based releases


    Coordination of upgrade with upgrade of "core" add-ons (eg LinguaPlone, PloneBoard) +8


    Distributed version control



Django is slow but very cautious checkin process


Working Well


    Foundation +14

    IRC +5

    Mailing lists moderated well +1

    PLIP, process good but need better implementation +2

    Release management +3

    Framework team

    Team info is publicised

    Sprints that benefit Plone core + add-ons +24

    Google SOC +2

    Ploneability - area specific event +1

    Conferences and symposia +5

    Great, fun, smart, nice people + pretty +12

    International +2

    User groups +3

    PSPS +5

    Culture of testing +5

    Meritocracy +3 (reciprocity)


    Easy to get started +1





    Decentralized development process, can't be controlled by a single person or company +3


    people want to help +2



informal mentoring of the next great developer




Not Working Well


    hard to get started and give meaningful support "what are you trying to do"

    Too much traffic in plone-user

    Lack good feedbaack loop from end users +3

    Hard to find out who is in charge for given subject area +1

    Need to have integrator on framework team giving feedback +3

    Duncan needs more help with Kupu +1

    PLIPS should cover the integrator point of view +5

    Not marketing to university students +4

    Things pushed to CMF as not our problem

    Designers | Plone devs | CMF devs | Zope devs (Wall between each) +10

    Framework team don't say no often +5

    Framework team needs delegation

    Feature rumour mill +2

    Links to plone.net from plone.org +2

    Add on ratings and feedback +7

    Doc team needs organisation +3

    Archetypes maintenance organisation +5

    Collective needs purging archiving +3

    Zope.org +3

    Culture of cleaning up and consolidating +4

    Things are not pushed to CMF/Zope

    Encourage more python developers +4

    More IP Mgmt for core/collective (assistance)

    Too much stuffing things in at the last minute of a release +1


    Too many with commit access -1

    Time commitments +1

    Lack of benchmarking

    Single ownership/no maintenance of core components

    "pre deprecation" (announcement something is dead before stable replacement)

    tracking feature requests +1

    common vision +10

    adding things we know are going to be dropped

    need smaller pieces to manage (many BDFLs) +3

    lack of product review +3

    addressing too many audiences at once +2

    test (never enough) +1

    more documentation review +1


Customization and Configuration


Working Well


    TTW/TTZope customization +12

    Resource registries +2

    Paster/Buildout/ZopeSkel +19

    Generic setup +6

    Textmate zope plugin - not enough publicity +4


    LDAP Integration +1

    ArchGenXML +5

    Open ID +1

    Browser views (developers)

    Plone control panel +5

    Placeful workflow +3

    Security +4

    Portal skins /skin layers +3

    Customerize +2

    Seperation of concerns

    Choice of add-on products

    DIYPloneStyle + tutorial

    Filesystem development +8

    FTP & Webdav

    Content rules

    Kupu +11

    Clouseau +5


Not Working Well


    Lack of TTW Content types +10

    Themeing too complex +26

    When security goes bad

    Customerize UI bad +2

    Too many uneven add ons +8

    Configurable out of the box Web Svcs +20

    No good tools like IDE et al

    Standardize build types

    More configurations, configlets for common cases +4

    More generic setup coverage

    AGX + Argo UML +2

    DIY vs Paster confusion

    Backwards compatibility +1

    ZCML +1

    Diff on GS profiles changes in control panel +1

    Too many things on the + list

    Generic setup doesn't roundtrip +3

    Uninstall doesnt work +3

    Upgrade doesn't work +4

    Base properties hard to find

    ZMI Workflow config

    ZODB Cache settings +1

    Lack of OAI

    Customize look & feel requires python +6

    Caching diagnostics too complex

    Multiple ways to do something +8

    FS needs polish +1

    QuickInstaller +6

    Plone is 1 size fits all

    Customizing templates too hard +6

    Auth +PAS is hard +1 x2(doc problem)

    Finding where to change something +2

    Migration +2

    Content Importer +7

    API Docs +5

    Composite Page story +8


Working elsewhere


    TTW Content type development +10

    Wordpress themeing +4

    Drupal profiles +4

    Wordpress plugins +1

    Django web svcs

    Drupals 3rd party way

    APT/RPM/Ports etc +3

    Capistrano RoR +3

    Liferay (template link to models)

    JBOSS: Custom deployment

    Stock Themes +6

    Joomla Theming Tool 

    Most Java systems have very clear API's +2

    WebError (in-browser debugger)